Discussion Grounds

Tom,

I just don’t see a contradiction between the statements of mine you quoted. In neither case did I indicate that I was offering a complete or well-r0unded summary of Christian doctrine.

But you’re right, it is important that I understand which flavor of Christianity you defend. Right now I’m still under the impression that you think Jesus is an…

• Invisible. He wouldn’t be much of a god if he wasn’t. He would be much of a god if he was some powerful guy sitting on a throne atop mount Figi, that you could just climb to and chat with.
• Magical. Again, he wouldn’t be much of a god if he wasn’t. Though some Christians are materialists, standard Christian doctrine says that Jesus is magical, so much so that most Christians wouldn’t even consider Christian materialists to be Christian at all. And if Jesus isn’t magical in the sense of “supernatural,” that would just mean he must be magical in the trivial sense of being an illusionist.
• Wish-granting. Just as some Christians deny that Jesus is supernatural, some Christians also deny that Jesus answers prayer requests. But you believe in intercessory prayer, right, Tom? Or have I got that wrong?
• Friend. I suppose this is the most contentious, but I still think most Christians think of Jesus as – among many other things - a loving companion with whom they have a personal relationship. Is that not part of how you conceive of Jesus, Tom? Have I got that wrong?

Tom, you say these qualities are not literally true of your concept of Jesus. But I re-read all your posts that you linked to, and I still don’t understand which of these attributes you specifically deny of Jesus. You repeat many times that my caricature of Jesus as an “invisible, magical, wish-granting friend” is incomplete and does not give a full or helpful summary of Christian doctrine, but we have agreed on that point from the beginning.

So I’m still confused. Which of the above adjectives does not apply to your concept of Jesus, and why? Surely you don’t think Jesus is normally visible to the naked eye. Are you a Christian materialist? Do you deny intercessory prayer? Do you not think of Jesus as your friend? Which part have I misunderstood? I suspect we must be using slightly different definitions for “magic” or “wish granting” or “friend” or something…

Cheers,

Luke